"...and for the first time in my lifetime religion has become an issue."
Graham, this is not at all surprising and certainly shouldn't be as it's the Prime Minister no less who's placed it front and centre with his "leaving the church" Sunday door-stops.
Howard never did this, though he sure hinted at it with his "Muslims can't be trusted, they throw their babies overboard" card and he played that one over and over and over again.
Which, come to think of was overtly religious though far more subtle than Rudd's.
Neither did any other PM - i'm just surprised that you're surprised at the pollies now blatant "playing the religious card".
[url=]http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/12/05/tony-abbott-and-the-god-question/#more-11402[/url] - [quote=]"...Abbott is the first leader to be associated with a particular style of political Catholicism – one which, some decades ago, would have been much more closely associated with the DLP (and indeed still has influence within various ALP right factions and unions)." [/quote]
Don't you remember Bob Santamaria?
Abbott has always played it and milked it as much as he could get away with though he does get a bit narky whenever it's played back at him - e.g. his bearly contained anger at getting sprung paying a visit to Sydney's Cardinal George Pell obviously prickly about that!
[url=http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1P1-99909478.html]Abbott says he met with Cardinal Pell[/url]
However, it used to be the case (at least with Morgan's Gallup polling) that a "And what religion are you?" question was always include to get a good "cross-section" in that polls demographic! Have they ceased this practise? If so, when?
2
Wednesday, 27 January 2010 14:45
Diana
Sorry Chokyi, but Rudd isn't the prime minister who started placing an emphasis on religion. Howard was into it from his first days as prime minister. He may not have been interviewed leaving church, but he made sure he was frequently shown in church, reading a lesson in church, kneeling in prayer in church and delivering an address in church. He made quite a show of kneeling in prayer whenever he knew a camera was around, even when it was not appropriate to kneel. The man played the religion card shamelessly.
3
Wednesday, 27 January 2010 15:09
Brian mcmahon
There are a few basic issues that have been ignored. The unpopularity of the NSW Government may translate into 5/8 seat loss in NSW alone. My mail is that Premier Bligh QLD is in a similiar situation. This senerio leaves Victoria as a key State and it already has a maximun labor vote in Federal Parliament.
Federal Labor has needs to get smarter and promote its TEAM and not just Rudd, as there is considerable talent on the front bench. This will also lessen the anti Rudd vote, by focusing on the difference in talent betwen labor and Liberals. ( Bishop and Ruddock). the big plus for Rudd should be the economic mamagement issue, as Clinton says, its all about JOBS!!
4
Wednesday, 27 January 2010 16:44
Chokyi Nyingpo
Sorry Brian, yes you're right - however, i don't think that he did doorstops inside or did he?
Rudd seems to have have raised this method (and trumpeting his religious background as opposed to Howard not trumpeting his) to a much higher artform so it shouldn't be at all surprising that religion is rearing its head even more
i'm just still surprised Graham can say "for the first time in my life"
Either he's younger than we believe or was never around in the days when Labour only = Catholic and Liberal = Protestant (there weren't many other religions then - even Howards Methodist's were just a rump until... 1977.)
Read..GOD UNDER HOWARD: The Rise of the Religious Right in Australian Politics
by Marian Maddox Allen & Unwin, Sydney, 2005. $29.95
in the first chapter, 'Sunday morning at Earlwood Methodist' stands alone and gives the reader an insight into the motivation for this book. Maddox, like Howard, was raised a Methodist in Sydney. (She points out 'Methodists became Uniting Church in 1977'.)
5
Wednesday, 27 January 2010 16:56
Con Carlyon
Rudd only has to mention one word, and he'll win in a landslide. That word is "Workchoices", and all the supposed "authenticity" of Abbott will evaporate, as will his claims to be P.M.
6
Wednesday, 27 January 2010 17:02
Graham Young
Hi, despite Marian Maddox's book I didn't see Howard talking about his religion. I certainly don't recall him being photographed in church, unless it was a public church service like a dignatory's funeral as Dianna claims, but maybe a photo will prove my memory faulty.
Keating never talked about it, although you knew he was Catholic. Hawke was an atheist, although the son of a minister (Presbyterian I think, but not sure). Fraser was presumably Anglican, but didn't talk religion. Whitlam I think was atheist, but fairly silent on his religious beliefs.
McMahon wasn't overtly religious, neither was Gorton. And that's the extent of how far I go back.
Sure there were religious undertones but it wasn't invoked publicly by the leaders except in a formal sense like the prayers that are said before parliament sits.
7
Wednesday, 27 January 2010 17:24
Mark
I agree with the comments you added re: NSW,QLD and my state of Victoria.
With the aggressive policies of Vic. labor that have alienated many Victorians federal labor cant expect to improve on their max senate allocations, if anything they will lose one to coalition. Another interesting thing is that the Victorian election is due early November (and I think the Federal is due mid November) Victorian Labor is going to have to contend with a very public campaign on their abortion on demand right up to the moment of birth, a bill that even 38,000 petitioners opposing were ignored.
Federal labor will be hurt by the timing of this campaign as the radical socialists in federal labor are forced to give their views, views that the vast majority of Victorians and Australians resoundly reject.
8
Wednesday, 27 January 2010 19:17
Don Aitchison
I do feel that Rudd is trying extremely hard to satisfy all side of politics. I am not saying he is doing a good job. Labour Party policy guided Australia through the Financil Crisis.
Remember Libs wanted to do nothing...........
Religion: Abbott has reportly saying recently that woman should say a virgin till they marry.. Its a pity Abbott didn't practice what he preachers. Abbott spin doctors must look at reason why people get popular enough to vote for. Eq Abbott is now a bush walking greenie. In his own words on national TV BullS***
9
Wednesday, 27 January 2010 20:33
Mike Hogan
I have read what Tony Abbott said in the interview to the WW. He has answered a question relating to what advice he would gve his daughters, not the nation, on sex. As a father of 3, 2 boys and a daughter now all in their early twenties, it is the same sort of advice I gave my kids. I am sure that there are many responsible parents in Australia who have provided similar advice to their kids.
Whether your kids follow your advice or not is up to them. You provide the guidance often based on the mistakes you made in life. Like Tony, I did not stand up on a street corner and and tell all female Australians how to act. And like Tony, if asked, I'll give an honest answer when related to my children. Talking to my friends and colleagues, they have nothing but admiration for Tony in his honesty.
10
Wednesday, 27 January 2010 21:24
Geoffrey Kelley
The Rudd Govt. is lying to the people about climate change. Wong makes silly statements such as, "95% of scientists believe in climate change!" She appointed a fool like Flannery, a climate activist, to lead our delegation to Copenhagen instead of appointing a scientist with some credibility in environmental science. Abbot is doing an excellent job of attacking Rudd"s lies and misinformation. Hi great big carbon tax is making the electorate sit up and ask why all these taxes and electricity price hikes ae necessary. The truth will come out when the politicians debate their views and talk the science.
11
Wednesday, 27 January 2010 21:28
Kaos
Interesting Graham - thanks. Abbott is the surprise opposition leader and wasnt it odd how Turnbull/Hockey supporters couldnt either count or get a consensus.
But its done now and they will be too timid to change leaders before the next election so its a Rudd vs Abbott argument.
Abbott doesnt have the stuff - he fidgets and has learnt that from catholism. Try to question the catechism classes! Not to bag, but I was brought up a catholic so I know about it. Strong views, weak argument. Belief? well, we can all believe in something - and I doubt it will be Tony.
12
Wednesday, 27 January 2010 21:28
Geoffrey Kelley
Chokyl Nyingpo asks if we remember Bob Santamaria, and I can answer YES! How many remember that John Howard flew to Melbourne to be with him on the day he died. Howard sat with Bob for over two hours that day. Santamaria's philosophy was understood and respected by most Liberal voters.
13
Wednesday, 27 January 2010 23:43
Lynne
Graham, I'm interested to know why you think Rudd will win if he mentions "Workchoices"?. Surely people aren't that stupid. He will lose just as many votes if Tony Abbott mention the words "boat-people"
14
Thursday, 28 January 2010 01:39
Yolanda
In terms of Australia Day - the government's choice of Australian of the Year was absolutely inspired. What all people need regardless is to be loved unconditionally. Be honouring a psychiatrist specialising in youth mental health the government has endorsed the need for young people to be nutured by the community. Think high youth suicide rates and this action by itself puts Abbotts comments about his advice to his children into direct action for the whole country. Tony looks and sounds good at the moment - fit, wearing boardies, loves his family, communicates well etc. Kevin sounds and his removed, serious, on the issues, directly honest about the cost to the community of poor health costs to the community of inaction on climate change. Tony might look and sound like your neighbour or your mate who you like and admire. But would you want your mate running the country?
15
Thursday, 28 January 2010 08:48
sheila Hale
As to the subject of religion: Rudd stated that he was a churchgoer which is safe for most people. In contrast, Abbott's staunch Catholicism shows through on issues such as abortion and marriage. While this is fine with other staunch Catholics and evangelicals most of the electorate take a more liberal view. He should have had the courage of his convictions to affirm why he takes this view though he has, like most of us fallen people sinned in this area. He has experienced what damage this does to relationships. If he truly lived for Jesus, believed on His Word, and was a Christian and not just expounding RC doctrines, he would have the courage to stand up for what God has to say about sex before marriage. Most importantly, it is a living symbol of Christ and the invisible church. A living union of we in Him and He in us. This is why God regards it as sacred and holy. Outside of marriage sex destroys relationships. Within marriage, it can be a relationship builder. Young people need to be reminded about premarital sex and adults need to be reminded about sexual fidelity. It would be great to have a leader that was truly Christian in Australia instead of using the sufferings of Christ for political gain. Rudd - merely a Churchgoer which activity does not make him a Christian.
16
Thursday, 28 January 2010 08:52
Patricia
It was time for Howard to go unfortunately he didn't agree and was punished for this. Unfortunately Abbott lost me with the appointments of Bishop, Ruddock, Minchin and Andrews to his front bench. I can't vote for Rudd as I think he wasting good ministers by being a control freak (don't get me started on the religious aspects). My vote will stay with the Independants/Greens though not Family First or any other candidate that mentions religion, that includes a persons right to make decisions regarding their own health or personal wellbeing!!!!
17
Thursday, 28 January 2010 09:20
Charles
Graham - Why do the media and you back away from performance measurement of the goverment - where is the research into Fuel watch grocery watch Boat people increasing interest rates rise of unionism finally if you want to compare character do you think Tony Abbot would get drunck in a strip club for political benift we no Kevin did!
18
Thursday, 28 January 2010 14:03
Graham
I cannot support such a strong catholic as Abbott..I am a sufferer of Parkinsons and hope for a cure via stem cell research--which his religion opposses!!!!!
19
Thursday, 28 January 2010 18:15
Andrew
I find it frustrating to read over and over that Work Choices is an issue. If competent and honest analysts ever did a comparison of the situation before and after the legislation was introduced they might have reported on benefits such as increased personal leave, increased bereavement leave, increased carers leave and increased difficulty in dismissing people who had chronic absenteeism (all issues which made life harder and more expensive for employers). The fact that the liberals (and Kevin Andrews in particular) ran an incompetent campaign in relation to their IR policy does not make the cleverly conceived and conducted campaign operated by the union movement factually correct. To comment more specifically on the current leaders of the major parties I have far more respect for people who express a clearly stated viewpoint and support their beliefs with strongly argued lines of thought than people who are obscure in their statements and who try to present themselves as one thing to one group and something else to another. I may not agree with Abbott on everything he says and does (and certainly not his religious beliefs) but I respect his presentation of his views. Rudd is not someone I can respect. Who knows whether the views he expresses this week will be the ones he supports next week. His inability to speak plain English, his propensity to abuse the people providing services to him (perhaps anger management classes of the type he directs others to attend would be appropriate) and his hypocrisy in demanding longer hours of work from the public servants who work for him whilst at the same time supporting the introduction of legislation which more tightly controls the hours worked by the rest of the population leave me in despair.
20
Thursday, 28 January 2010 19:35
Fran
Regarding Tony Abbott's comments in WW - I agree with Geoffrey, it was regarding his family - not the nation. From all that Tony Abbott has said, he has an understanding of women's issues & is willing to bring them into the public arena - it's wonderful!!! And he desires the best for us! Yes! Bring it on! For eg: consider the prevalence sexually transmitted diseases & the consequences it is having on both males & females - isn't it about time that this issue was discussed? The issue surround RU486 - why isn't the issue of it causing deaths discussed especially when Dr Costa wanted it allowed for isolated country people - with little or no access to a Medical Doctor if anything goes wrong? Do we consider them 2nd rate or something? Indeed any woman taking it is at risk - are all females 2nd rate? Tony Abbott doesn't think so! Quite the opposite - he stands up for us & questions this data. Abortions... well again - look at the evidence of psychological and anatomical damage done to women & also that over 90% of women are having abortions due to outside pressure placed on them to do so, such as sexual partners, work etc... again isn't it a shame that here in Australia when the waiting list for adoption is 10 years or more - that there are so many abortions inflicted on women? Again Tony Abbott is the only one will to stand up for women on this issue.
I say "Well done Tony Abbott - your the only politician willing to stand up for women's rights!"
Regarding the religion issue - well if that means that he is self reflective - which he has proven to be especially in regards to his own sexual activities prior to marriage and on other issues - again bravo Tony Abbott. He didn't try to white wash any of it, blame anyone else or cop out of his responsibilities... what more do you want?
Again, well done Tony Abbott
Climate change and its schemes is just that a scheme for the government to have a money pit... it has been proven to be unscientific and promoted by those who would rather we live in hovels. Remember the 80's - we were going into the ice age! again scientifically proven, wasn't it!!! Canada used to have rain forest as did Siberia and they have the oil to prove it!!!!
If your not scientifically inclined - read your history and you'll find that times have been far warmer and colder than today.
Cheers
21
Thursday, 28 January 2010 20:00
Ignaz
Leaders of the major parties take note: there is no room in a functioning democracy for religious fundamentalism in any form (and this comes from a practising Catholic who finds more than a few of Abbott's - and by extension the Vatican's - attitudes morally repugnant). Furthermore, Rudd's TV soundbytes outside of Church on Sundays and his continued tolerance of such reprehensible groups as the Exclusive Brethren do precious little to represent the unbiased legitimacy and secular fairness that is a prerequisite of a modern 21st century Australian statesman.
22
Thursday, 28 January 2010 20:11
Frances
Hello again, I'm sorry I didn't put my name on my last comment regarding how Tony Abbott stands up for women...
But anyway, my one last comment regarding your comment Andrew regarding stem cell - I'm sure your referring to Tony Abbott's stance on embryo stem cell research? Research that has had no success. The pharmaceutical companies want it legal so they can say that their drugs have been tested - not on animals but, humans & thereby put their medicines on the market sooner.
Adult stem cell & umbilical cord stem cell has had all the success thus far & have proven that embryo stem cell research is not required & is considered in many places as a thing of the past.
Then let me address you on this... at what cost are you willing to place on the cure? To gather the embryo's women have to undertake an extreme procedure involving hormones & a procedure that can cause cancer, strokes, future infertility, kidney disease etc... so women should be willing to donate not only their bodies but their children on the altar of science hey? Wonderful! And I thought humanity & science was supposed to be progressing! How many women & children need to be sacrificed? Again, thank you Tony Abbott for standing up for women - and if this all happens due to Tony being an RC - well done the RC Church too!!! Stop using or thinking of women and their fertility as commodities !!!
Cheers Fran
PS Andrew I am sympathetic to you regarding your illness, my dad has it too but please research into these alternatives & the problems they can, in turn, cause others.
23
Saturday, 30 January 2010 08:34
Garry
Posted by:Fran at January 28, 2010 07:35 PM..finding it frustrating to work out why WorkChoices is continually mentioned?? Maybe Fran it might have something to do with the unlimited power that Howard bestowed on the employer and what miniscule rights the employee was left with after his totally un-Australian war on the Australian worker and his /her family. I myself because of my working capacity was almost immune from his attack...but members of my family were stunned into realisation of the war when they had hours, wages, and conditions slashed from them with NO recourse whatsoever..bloody NONE Fran..THAT IS the reason WorkChoices is still being mentioned and not allowed to fade into the political past. WorkChoices had ONLY one objective and that was to degrade and drive the workforce into a race to the bottom of the wages ladder in order to appease Howard's Multi-National and obscenely rich business friends in their quest for the greedy profit taking that bought about the Global Financial Crisis in the first place. GREED..Fran..that is what WorkChoices was and if Abbott has his way..it WILL raise it's ugly bloody head again..you can be sure of that.
24
Saturday, 30 January 2010 08:48
Garry
My apologies Fran, I only just noticed that my reply should've been directed to Andrew.
25
Saturday, 30 January 2010 13:03
klaas woldring
The problem with the two-party system is that there are essentially two choices only. Neither party is totally convincing to most voters so that we end up mostly with the party that can capture enough of the middle ground to swing the election its way. While one might say that there is at least some difference now between the parties on climate change policies there isn't much at all in other areas. The leadership assessment and perceived personalities of the leaders do play a role but overall we'll end up with the party that, on balance, is least unacceptable to the majority of voters. My question is: Is this two-party system good enough for Australia's future? I would say: absolutely not. It prevents bold, necessary policies from being introduced; the generation of parliamentary majorities on different issues is basically impossible in this system apart from conscience vote issues. What is the cause of this? The single-member district electoral system - combined with compulsory voting! The remedy, first of all, is the introduction of proportional represention - open party list system, used in a large number of democracies. With PR compulsory voting becomes less of an issue but its replacement by voluntary voting, also widespread in the world, would still be a further step in the right direction. Would these changes be introduced by the major parties? Highly unlikely but the party that would adopt such policy changes is likely to benefit the most. The electoral reform inquiry has the proposal before it. Now watch what they will come up with.
"...and for the first time in my lifetime religion has become an issue."
Graham, this is not at all surprising and certainly shouldn't be as it's the Prime Minister no less who's placed it front and centre with his "leaving the church" Sunday door-stops.
Howard never did this, though he sure hinted at it with his "Muslims can't be trusted, they throw their babies overboard" card and he played that one over and over and over again.
Which, come to think of was overtly religious though far more subtle than Rudd's.
Neither did any other PM - i'm just surprised that you're surprised at the pollies now blatant "playing the religious card".
[url=]http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/12/05/tony-abbott-and-the-god-question/#more-11402[/url] - [quote=]"...Abbott is the first leader to be associated with a particular style of political Catholicism – one which, some decades ago, would have been much more closely associated with the DLP (and indeed still has influence within various ALP right factions and unions)." [/quote]
Don't you remember Bob Santamaria?
Abbott has always played it and milked it as much as he could get away with though he does get a bit narky whenever it's played back at him - e.g. his bearly contained anger at getting sprung paying a visit to Sydney's Cardinal George Pell obviously prickly about that!
[url=http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1P1-99909478.html]Abbott says he met with Cardinal Pell[/url]
However, it used to be the case (at least with Morgan's Gallup polling) that a "And what religion are you?" question was always include to get a good "cross-section" in that polls demographic! Have they ceased this practise? If so, when?
There are a few basic issues that have been ignored. The unpopularity of the NSW Government may translate into 5/8 seat loss in NSW alone. My mail is that Premier Bligh QLD is in a similiar situation. This senerio leaves Victoria as a key State and it already has a maximun labor vote in Federal Parliament.
Federal Labor has needs to get smarter and promote its TEAM and not just Rudd, as there is considerable talent on the front bench. This will also lessen the anti Rudd vote, by focusing on the difference in talent betwen labor and Liberals. ( Bishop and Ruddock). the big plus for Rudd should be the economic mamagement issue, as Clinton says, its all about JOBS!!
Sorry Brian, yes you're right - however, i don't think that he did doorstops inside or did he?
Rudd seems to have have raised this method (and trumpeting his religious background as opposed to Howard not trumpeting his) to a much higher artform so it shouldn't be at all surprising that religion is rearing its head even more
i'm just still surprised Graham can say "for the first time in my life"
Either he's younger than we believe or was never around in the days when Labour only = Catholic and Liberal = Protestant (there weren't many other religions then - even Howards Methodist's were just a rump until... 1977.)
Read..GOD UNDER HOWARD:
The Rise of the Religious Right in Australian Politics
by Marian Maddox
Allen & Unwin, Sydney, 2005. $29.95
in the first chapter, 'Sunday morning at Earlwood Methodist' stands alone and gives the reader an insight into the motivation for this book. Maddox, like Howard, was raised a Methodist in Sydney. (She points out 'Methodists became Uniting Church in 1977'.)
Hi, despite Marian Maddox's book I didn't see Howard talking about his religion. I certainly don't recall him being photographed in church, unless it was a public church service like a dignatory's funeral as Dianna claims, but maybe a photo will prove my memory faulty.
Keating never talked about it, although you knew he was Catholic. Hawke was an atheist, although the son of a minister (Presbyterian I think, but not sure). Fraser was presumably Anglican, but didn't talk religion. Whitlam I think was atheist, but fairly silent on his religious beliefs.
McMahon wasn't overtly religious, neither was Gorton. And that's the extent of how far I go back.
Sure there were religious undertones but it wasn't invoked publicly by the leaders except in a formal sense like the prayers that are said before parliament sits.
I agree with the comments you added re: NSW,QLD and my state of Victoria.
With the aggressive policies of Vic. labor that have alienated many Victorians federal labor cant expect to improve on their max senate allocations, if anything they will lose one to coalition. Another interesting thing is that the Victorian election is due early November (and I think the Federal is due mid November) Victorian Labor is going to have to contend with a very public campaign on their abortion on demand right up to the moment of birth, a bill that even 38,000 petitioners opposing were ignored.
Federal labor will be hurt by the timing of this campaign as the radical socialists in federal labor are forced to give their views, views that the vast majority of Victorians and Australians resoundly reject.
I do feel that Rudd is trying extremely hard to satisfy all side of politics. I am not saying he is doing a good job. Labour Party policy guided Australia through the Financil Crisis.
Remember Libs wanted to do nothing...........
Religion: Abbott has reportly saying recently that woman should say a virgin till they marry.. Its a pity Abbott didn't practice what he preachers.
Abbott spin doctors must look at reason why people get popular enough to vote for. Eq Abbott is now a bush walking greenie. In his own words on national TV BullS***
I have read what Tony Abbott said in the interview to the WW. He has answered a question relating to what advice he would gve his daughters, not the nation, on sex. As a father of 3, 2 boys and a daughter now all in their early twenties, it is the same sort of advice I gave my kids. I am sure that there are many responsible parents in Australia who have provided similar advice to their kids.
Whether your kids follow your advice or not is up to them. You provide the guidance often based on the mistakes you made in life. Like Tony, I did not stand up on a street corner and and tell all female Australians how to act. And like Tony, if asked, I'll give an honest answer when related to my children. Talking to my friends and colleagues, they have nothing but admiration for Tony in his honesty.
Interesting Graham - thanks. Abbott is the surprise opposition leader and wasnt it odd how Turnbull/Hockey supporters couldnt either count or get a consensus.
But its done now and they will be too timid to change leaders before the next election so its a Rudd vs Abbott argument.
Abbott doesnt have the stuff - he fidgets and has learnt that from catholism. Try to question the catechism classes! Not to bag, but I was brought up a catholic so I know about it. Strong views, weak argument. Belief? well, we can all believe in something - and I doubt it will be Tony.
Fuel watch
grocery watch
Boat people
increasing interest rates
rise of unionism
finally if you want to compare character do you think Tony Abbot would get drunck in a strip club for political benift we no Kevin did!
To comment more specifically on the current leaders of the major parties I have far more respect for people who express a clearly stated viewpoint and support their beliefs with strongly argued lines of thought than people who are obscure in their statements and who try to present themselves as one thing to one group and something else to another. I may not agree with Abbott on everything he says and does (and certainly not his religious beliefs) but I respect his presentation of his views. Rudd is not someone I can respect. Who knows whether the views he expresses this week will be the ones he supports next week. His inability to speak plain English, his propensity to abuse the people providing services to him (perhaps anger management classes of the type he directs others to attend would be appropriate) and his hypocrisy in demanding longer hours of work from the public servants who work for him whilst at the same time supporting the introduction of legislation which more tightly controls the hours worked by the rest of the population leave me in despair.
Regarding Tony Abbott's comments in WW - I agree with Geoffrey, it was regarding his family - not the nation.
From all that Tony Abbott has said, he has an understanding of women's issues & is willing to bring them into the public arena - it's wonderful!!! And he desires the best for us! Yes! Bring it on!
For eg: consider the prevalence sexually transmitted diseases & the consequences it is having on both males & females - isn't it about time that this issue was discussed?
The issue surround RU486 - why isn't the issue of it causing deaths discussed especially when Dr Costa wanted it allowed for isolated country people - with little or no access to a Medical Doctor if anything goes wrong? Do we consider them 2nd rate or something? Indeed any woman taking it is at risk - are all females 2nd rate? Tony Abbott doesn't think so! Quite the opposite - he stands up for us & questions this data.
Abortions... well again - look at the evidence of psychological and anatomical damage done to women & also that over 90% of women are having abortions due to outside pressure placed on them to do so, such as sexual partners, work etc... again isn't it a shame that here in Australia when the waiting list for adoption is 10 years or more - that there are so many abortions inflicted on women? Again Tony Abbott is the only one will to stand up for women on this issue.
I say "Well done Tony Abbott - your the only politician willing to stand up for women's rights!"
Regarding the religion issue - well if that means that he is self reflective - which he has proven to be especially in regards to his own sexual activities prior to marriage and on other issues - again bravo Tony Abbott. He didn't try to white wash any of it, blame anyone else or cop out of his responsibilities... what more do you want?
Again, well done Tony Abbott
Climate change and its schemes is just that a scheme for the government to have a money pit... it has been proven to be unscientific and promoted by those who would rather we live in hovels. Remember the 80's - we were going into the ice age! again scientifically proven, wasn't it!!! Canada used to have rain forest as did Siberia and they have the oil to prove it!!!!
If your not scientifically inclined - read your history and you'll find that times have been far warmer and colder than today.
Cheers
Hello again, I'm sorry I didn't put my name on my last comment regarding how Tony Abbott stands up for women...
But anyway, my one last comment regarding your comment Andrew regarding stem cell - I'm sure your referring to Tony Abbott's stance on embryo stem cell research? Research that has had no success. The pharmaceutical companies want it legal so they can say that their drugs have been tested - not on animals but, humans & thereby put their medicines on the market sooner.
Adult stem cell & umbilical cord stem cell has had all the success thus far & have proven that embryo stem cell research is not required & is considered in many places as a thing of the past.
Then let me address you on this... at what cost are you willing to place on the cure? To gather the embryo's women have to undertake an extreme procedure involving hormones & a procedure that can cause cancer, strokes, future infertility, kidney disease etc... so women should be willing to donate not only their bodies but their children on the altar of science hey?
Wonderful! And I thought humanity & science was supposed to be progressing! How many women & children need to be sacrificed?
Again, thank you Tony Abbott for standing up for women - and if this all happens due to Tony being an RC - well done the RC Church too!!!
Stop using or thinking of women and their fertility as commodities !!!
Cheers
Fran
PS Andrew I am sympathetic to you regarding your illness, my dad has it too but please research into these alternatives & the problems they can, in turn, cause others.
Maybe Fran it might have something to do with the unlimited power that Howard bestowed on the employer and what miniscule rights the employee was left with after his totally un-Australian war on the Australian worker and his /her family.
I myself because of my working capacity was almost immune from his attack...but members of my family were stunned into realisation of the war when they had hours, wages, and conditions slashed from them with NO recourse whatsoever..bloody NONE Fran..THAT IS the reason WorkChoices is still being mentioned and not allowed to fade into the political past. WorkChoices had ONLY one objective and that was to degrade and drive the workforce into a race to the bottom of the wages ladder in order to appease Howard's Multi-National and obscenely rich business friends in their quest for the greedy profit taking that bought about the Global Financial Crisis in the first place. GREED..Fran..that is what WorkChoices was and if Abbott has his way..it WILL raise it's ugly bloody head again..you can be sure of that.
My question is: Is this two-party system good enough for Australia's future? I would say: absolutely not. It prevents bold, necessary policies from being introduced; the generation of parliamentary majorities on different issues is basically impossible in this system apart from conscience vote issues. What is the cause of this? The single-member district electoral system - combined with compulsory voting! The remedy, first of all, is the introduction of proportional represention - open party list system, used in a large number of democracies. With PR compulsory voting becomes less of an issue but its replacement by voluntary voting, also widespread in the world, would still be a further step in the right direction. Would these changes be introduced by the major parties? Highly unlikely but the party that would adopt such policy changes is likely to benefit the most. The electoral reform inquiry has the proposal before it. Now watch what they will come up with.